It is almost impossible to talk to Ray McCauley, the founder of the Rhema Ministries, about anything financial. Throughout an interview with the FM, he kept moving the conversation away from the church's finances towards theology and the church's history.
McCauley says he lives a modest life. He owns only one home (in Durban) and drives a Jeep Cherokee. He says he is sick of being portrayed as "a billionaire with private jets". 
When asked how much he earns, he declines to answer - but says if any of his church members are curious about his pay, he will happily disclose details.
Asked to provide some kind of ballpark figure, he says he earns no more than a senior executive in a large company. He says his salary is set by one of the church committees and he is not involved.
Commenting on tith ing - the practice of giving 10% of your salary to the church - he says people are not forced to part with money they can't afford to do without.
"I never know who gives what. We believe that when a person gives, it's the right thing to do," says McCauley. He says he has never asked for money on television as some evangelists do in the US, and he doesn't support that method of fund raising "at all".
Rhema's TBN channel apparently doesn't bring in any money. It costs the church "a small fortune" to broadcast sermons over weekends.
How does McCauley describe his leadership style? The question is answered by his son Joshua : "Strong, visionary." After a pause, McCauley says: "I've become more democratic."
When it's suggested that he had been described as a dictator by former co-workers, McCauley responds: "I can be at times, I suppose it depends on who you speak to. Strong leaders are... I can upset people sometimes. But how do you accomplish things otherwise?"
He does four services on a Sunday and generally works until 11 or 12 at night.
When asked to provide financial details of Rhema activities, he and media minder Ron Steele (whom we were told not to quote) sidestep the issue. But in a follow-up e-mail we are told that information is published in the annual report, available only to church members.
Steele said the church "would prefer not to disclose [income] as a lot of this is cash that comes in on Sundays... The church once had an attempted heist, which was thwarted by brilliant police work and the perpetrators were arrested before they could attack the church."
McCauley is head of the church and chairman of the advisory board, which meets weekly. Under the advisory board is the management committee, which also meets weekly and deals with the day-to-day running of the church. A financial advisory board meets monthly, and the church committee - which consists of church members - meets quarterly. Rhema, with 420 churches, is estimated to own assets worth R40m.
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